Welcome back to The Produce Moms Podcast. On today’s episode, we continue our food as medicine series with Mark Walker, Chairman and CEO of Performance Kitchen. Mark founded Performance Foods, a company that specializes in creating medically tailored meals. What are medically tailored meals? What is performance kitchen? How is this category and this brand a huge catalyst and stakeholder in the food is medicine movement?

Listen to the full episode here: The Produce Moms Podcast on Apple Podcasts

To try the Food is Medicine Locator visit: https://performancekitchen.com/pages/producemoms

Episode Transcript

Lori Taylor (00:02.444)

Okay, everyone, welcome back. This is the Produce Moms podcast. And as you all know, we are celebrating the Food is Medicine movement. Recently attended the Food is Medicine Summit in Chicago. I learned so much about all these different stakeholders. And what my biggest takeaway was is, wow, there are so many key players and catalysts to bringing this thing to life.

 

Lori Taylor (00:30.136)

and bringing it together with just the velocity and vigor. I mean, we’ve seen so much movement in this initiative and advancements that are happening quite rapidly to the point where it’s taking our industry, the fresh produce industry and the fresh food industry really by surprise in all the right ways. So today on our Food is Medicine miniseries, we are so fortunate. We are welcoming Mark Walker.

 

Lori Taylor (01:00.104)

It’s been over a year now we met in DC. Again, food is medicine is what brought us together, but Mark is the chairman and CEO of performance kitchen and performance kitchen is absolutely the leader in medically tailored meals. What are medically tailored meals? What is performance kitchen? How is this category and this brand a huge catalyst and stakeholder in the food is medicine movement? We’ll stay with us.

 

Lori Taylor (01:29.764)

all those things and more in today’s episode of the Produce Moms podcast. Okay. All right, Mark, welcome to the show. We’re so glad you’re here. Please introduce yourself as well as Performance Kitchen to our audience. Thanks, Lori.

 

Mark Walker (01:44.81)

Well, thank you, Lori. I’m happy to be here. And like you said, we met at the, uh, at the White House conference on food is medicine, which is kind of arguably the coming out party of, of our entire industry. So it’s been an exciting road and a lot of people just aren’t aware of what’s going on. I mean, we’re having dozens of conversations a week on this and. You know, so I’m, I’m excited for the opportunity to kind of talk to people about it, but, um, short version is performance kitchen is a medically tailored meal company. What does that mean? Well, we’ll get into that, but.

 

Lori Taylor (02:01.704)

to eat on this and so I’m excited to talk to people about it. Short version of Performance Kitchen is a medically tailored meal plan. What does that mean? We’ll get into that. But the essence of it is healthy meals prepared for the purpose of fighting chronic disease. In fact, that’s our definition of food as medicine. It’s how do we use food, which we all are familiar with, as decades.

 

Mark Walker (02:14.434)

The essence of it is healthy meals prepared for the purpose of fighting chronic disease in the country. And in fact, that’s our definition of food as medicine is how do we use food, which we all are familiar with for decades as a clinical intervention for disease and healthcare. So it’s the transition, food as medicine is the transition from normal eating habits of everyday Americans to the healthcare system and how does it integrate into health?

 

Lori Taylor (02:33.377)

as a clinical intervention for disease and health. Right. It’s the transition, food and medicine is the transition from normal eating habits of everyday Americans to the health care system and kinds of integrated health. I love that. So who do you serve almost feels like, you know, in many ways, who do you not serve? Who does this not touch, right? If it’s a medical intervention, I mean, you’re a service not just to the patient, but to the entire medical team.

 

Lori Taylor (03:00.1)

But yeah, I mean, how do you answer that question, Mark?

 

Mark Walker (03:03.394)

So yeah, you’re right, Laurie. It’s complicated when you get into it because the essence of this and we, the drug that we’re talking about, which is food, is every single American, every single person on the planet eats it once, twice, three times a day, right? So it’s a, who do you not serve? Or who does not benefit from a food is medicine intervention is a better way to put it. Like it really puts on its head the concept of medicine. Because when you think about

 

Lori Taylor (03:06.548)

into it because the essence of this drug that we’re talking about, which is food, is every single American, every single person on the planet eats it once, twice, three times a day. So if it’s a kudiyatsa, or who does not benefit from a food as medicine intervention is a better way to put it. It really puts on its head the concept of medicine. Because when you think about…

 

Mark Walker (03:33.542)

just the practical applications of what we do on a daily basis is, should it be prescribed? Well, back up a little bit. Why does medicine need to be prescribed? Why do we need to have an intermediary that says you can use that medicine or cannot? That’s how the entire healthcare system is built today. And the reason why is the basic premise of healthcare is first, do no harm, right? And almost every drug on the planet has side effects. And so you need an arbiter to say,

 

Lori Taylor (03:33.948)

Just the fact of the matter is what we do on a daily basis is, should it be prescribed?

 

Lori Taylor (03:40.148)

Well, back up a little bit. Why does medicine need to be prescribed? Why do we need to have an intermediary that says, you can’t use that medicine, you cannot? That’s how the entire health care system is built today. And the reason why is that the basic premise of health care is first we know how, right? And almost every drug on the planet has side effects. Yeah. So you need an arbiter to say, well, I think the risk of that drug is more valuable than the drug. And we’ve struggled with this internally.

 

Mark Walker (04:02.386)

Well, I think the risk of that drug is more valuable than the benefits. And we’ve struggled with this internally of, from a fiduciary standpoint, if somebody comes to us and says we believe they need a medically tailored meal benefit, I’m really still at a lot, who would not benefit from that, right? It’s from a medical intervention standpoint. Now, you may not have three chronic diseases, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t benefit from a food as medicine

 

Tony Freytag (04:06.473)

you

 

Lori Taylor (04:16.692)

I really still have a lot, who would not benefit from that? It’s from a medical intervention standpoint. Now you may not have three products, but it seems like it’s gonna be me and you don’t benefit from a previous medicine intervention. So you’re asking the right question, which is who benefits? And the answer realistically is everyone. Right. The question of where the industry starts is a difficult one. In that question, who is it currently being deployed for? It’s…

 

Tony Freytag (04:24.855)

Bye bye!

 

Mark Walker (04:32.13)

who benefits? And the answer realistically is everybody, right? The question of where the industry starts is a different one. And that question, who is it currently being deployed for? It’s those with chronic disease in very specific populations, which unfortunately even that stat, 86% of seniors have a chronic disease, right? 60% of adults in the country overall have a chronic disease. So…

 

Lori Taylor (04:46.646)

those were chronic disease. There is a certain population which, unfortunately even that stat, 86% of seniors have chronic disease. Right? 60% of adults in the country overall have chronic disease. So, the real question is, you know, and even the ones that don’t.

 

Mark Walker (05:00.738)

The real question is, and even the ones that don’t, pre-diabetes is a good example. If you’re a pre-diabetic, which is 30 to 40% of the country, do you benefit from a food? Absolutely you do. And it just may or may not be paid for by your insurance. And that’s really the key of the movement.

 

Lori Taylor (05:12.477)

um right and it just may or may not be paid for by your insurance

 

Lori Taylor (05:20.216)

Yeah, we’re definitely gonna get into that. I gotta bring in our co-host for this series, Tony Freytag. So Tony, as you all know, he’s the chairman of Crunch Pack. Crunch Pack has been gracious to sponsor this entire mini-series, and they’re obviously very committed to the broader mission at hand here with Food is Medicine. So Tony, welcome to the show. I know that you’ve got questions for Mark. Go ahead, mic is yours. I guess Mark, I mean, it’s…

 

Tony Freytag (05:43.456)

Thank you.

 

Tony Freytag (05:47.011)

I guess, Mark, I mean, it’s, over the last year, I have seen such a growth, such a boom in this whole topic as food is medicine. I know it’s been bubbling up for years. Obviously, this is not a one-year scenario. What brought you, from a personal standpoint, what made you say, where was the light bulb that went on and said, hey, I need to do this?

 

Lori Taylor (05:50.564)

Over the last year, I have seen such a growth, such a boom in this whole topic as food is medicine. I know it’s been bubbling up for years. Obviously, this is not a one year scenario. What brought you, from a personal standpoint, what made you say, where was the light bulb that went on and said, hey, I need to do this?

 

Mark Walker (06:17.206)

Well, so it’s a crazy question because…

 

Lori Taylor (06:17.448)

Well, it’s a crazy question because I’m not a food guy, nor am I a health guy. The company that I manage and run is called Dead Adventures, and oddly enough, it’s an investment group of professional athletes.

 

Mark Walker (06:22.022)

I’m not a food guy, nor am I a healthcare guy. The company that I manage and run, it’s called Dugout Ventures, and oddly enough, it’s an investment group of professional athletes. And we look to find assets that we can not only invest in, but deploy our efforts in. We found Performance Kitchen five years ago as a healthy retail food brand. And I liked it, liked it a lot for a variety of different reasons. Knew nothing about food as medicine at the time.

 

Mark Walker (06:51.946)

Um, dove in and I’m going to try to sum up this story as quickly as I can, but it’s a longer story. Um, within three to six months, I was educated very, very quickly on the very difficult road of retail food distribution. Um, however, at the same time, we were selling a lot of, a lot of, a lot of vegetarian, a lot of Mediterranean, but also a lot of keto product, low carb product, and I didn’t know what it was at the time.

 

Lori Taylor (07:04.626)

rather than retail food distribution. However, at the same time, we were selling a lot of vegetarian, a lot of Mediterranean, but also a lot of keto products. Sure, yeah. I didn’t know there was a time. I’m like, what is this crazy diet that crazy people are doing by taking buns off their meat? So just like everything else I do, I go then.

 

Mark Walker (07:19.094)

I’m like, what is this crazy diet that crazy people are doing by taking buns off their meat? And so just like everything else I do, I dove in. And if you don’t know the history of it, it’s such a fascinating history because the keto diet is one of our true medical diets. It is a, it was discovered, created and cultivated as a medical intervention for epilepsy. And the history is really fascinating that it was discovered 100 years ago.

 

Lori Taylor (07:28.644)

And if you don’t know the history of it, it’s such a fascinating history because the keto diet is one of our true medical values. It was discovered, created, and cultivated as a medical intervention for epilepsy. And the history is really fascinating that it was discovered 100 years ago, people researching the epilepsy and then it died off and fell off a plane.

 

Mark Walker (07:48.13)

people researching epilepsy and then it died off, fell off the planet. Where it re-emerged was in the 90s. You guys, I don’t know if you know the story or not, but it’s fascinating. Where it re-emerged, and I would argue probably my impetus around the space, was reading the story for the first time as I was studying it. The guy named Jim Abenson that was the executive producer of the airplane movies in the 90s. I don’t know if you guys remember those with Leslie Nielsen. Leslie Nielsen, right? Yeah.

 

Lori Taylor (07:52.896)

Where it re-emerged was in the 90s. You guys, I don’t know if you know the story or not, but it’s fascinating. Where it re-emerged, I would argue probably my interest around space was reading a story the first time that I was studying it. A guy named Jim Adeson that was the executive producer of the airplane movies in the 90s. I don’t know if you guys remember those, but Les Nelson.

 

Lori Taylor (08:15.296)

Um, that’s the Nelson Oak, yeah. Um, but, uh, short version of the story is, um, his son was diagnosed with that lexicon. At an early age, and I had young-

 

Mark Walker (08:17.718)

But short version of the story is his son was diagnosed with epilepsy at an early age. And I had young boys at the time. And as a parent, I don’t know if you guys have kids or not, but it was just a, I can’t imagine as a parent, a more excruciating thing and seeing your child go through that disease. But he’s one of the top producers in Hollywood, right? He can find any solution he wants. So the short version is went through an iteration of every…

 

Lori Taylor (08:27.844)

And as a parent, I don’t know if you guys have kids or not, but it was just a, I can’t imagine as a parent a more excruciating thing than seeing a child go through that disease. But he’s one of the top producers in Hollywood, right? He can find any solution he wants. So the short version is literally an iteration of every medical intervention he could and wasn’t successful. I actually heard him retell the story the other day that finally he was left with two crazy solutions, which was somebody over at Houston

 

Mark Walker (08:46.506)

medical intervention he could and wasn’t successful. And I actually heard him retell the story the other day that finally was left with two crazy solutions, which is somebody over in Houston with some intervention. And then the other one was some crazy lady at John Hopkins University was doing a diet. And he’s like, well, look, I’m gonna try the one in Houston first because there’s no way the diet’s gonna work. And then…

 

Lori Taylor (08:57.638)

with some intervention. And then the other one was a crazy lady at John Hopkins University who was doing a diet. And he was like, well look, I’m going to try to run a Houston first because nobody asks for a quarter. And then, and then again, just to reiterate what I’m feeling at the time, I mean this is, he was a two year old son, it’s having 50 violent seizures a day. It’s just, it’s just heart-wrenching.

 

Mark Walker (09:12.082)

And then, and again, just to iterate what I’m feeling at the time, I mean, this is his, I think it was two-year-old son that’s having 50 violent seizures a day. Like it’s just, just heart-wrenching. So he finds, flies a son into John Hopkins and within two days, his son’s seizure stopped. And I think that was probably the catalyst that’s, that drove us into the space. Because I remember reliving that experience thinking the joy as a father that you would experience, the

 

Lori Taylor (09:27.018)

John Hopkins and within two days his son sees himself. I think that was probably the catalyst that drove us into this race. Because I remember reliving that experience, thinking the joy as a father that you have experienced that they found something to save yourself. Right. And then 10 seconds later, the absolute.

 

Mark Walker (09:41.91)

that they’ve found something that saves your son. And then 10 seconds later, the absolute furious state that you’d be in that you didn’t know about it before now. I would just be irate that this works. And then when you start looking into it, it’s 50% of epileptic kids this works with. So it was such a catalyst for our experience. And the short version of what happened after that is I started looking into the data

 

Lori Taylor (09:49.736)

curious state that you’d be in, that you didn’t know about it before. Right? I would just be irate. Right. This works, and then when you start looking into it, it’s 50% of epileptic kids, this works for them. Right? So it was such a catalyst for our experience, and the short version of what happened after that is I started looking into the data and found that

 

Mark Walker (10:12.066)

A true food is medicine intervention saves $3 for every dollar invested in food, in healthcare costs. And I’m like, hold on, time out.

 

Lori Taylor (10:13.676)

A true cruise medicine innovation saves $3 for every dollar invested in food and health care products. Wow. It saves $3 for every dollar? That’s what the study shows. $3 for every dollar invested in food and health care products. Yeah. Wow. And so this is data where, so you’ve got the efficacy of it works, you know, and then you’ve got the, you know, from a fiduciary point of view.

 

Mark Walker (10:23.298)

That’s what the studies show. For every dollar you put into food, it saves about $3 in healthcare costs.

 

Lori Taylor (10:41.26)

It also makes sound sense.

 

Mark Walker (10:43.606)

Well, in the fiduciary side, and this is where not having a food experience and not having healthcare, I have no business whatsoever being in the space. But what I do have, I’m a CPA and a financial guy. And so I’m looking at the numbers and saying, okay, three to one ROI in a $4.2 trillion industry healthcare with, and there’s one graph and I’ll send it to you so you can give it to your listeners, but it’s the percentage of GDP that the U S spends on healthcare every year.

 

Lori Taylor (10:49.84)

whatsoever being in the space. But what I do have, I’m a CPA and a financial. Right. I look at the numbers and say, okay, three to one. So, I’m a financial. I’m a financial.

 

Lori Taylor (10:58.728)

$2 trillion in investment. Right. But there’s one graph, I’ll say it’s easy to get to, but it’s the percentage of GDP that the US spends on healthcare, right? Oh God, I don’t even know if I wanna see it. It’s gotta be grotesque. I’m gonna make a graph here. Okay. It’s a straight line. Yeah, I bet.

 

Mark Walker (11:14.15)

I’ll show you what it looks like. I’m going to make the graph for you. It looks like this. It’s a straight lineup. We’re now at 20% of GDP that we spend on health care.

 

Tony Freytag (11:14.225)

Yeah.

 

Lori Taylor (11:23.388)

That’s insane. Tony, what do you think? Insane.

 

Mark Walker (11:25.154)

So what makes it more insane is 1960, it was 5%. And now it’s 20% of GDP. It’s a disaster. I mean, it really, financial disaster. So the short version of the story is, this was now four or five years ago. I called a buddy of mine that happened to work at one of the top insurance companies in the country and said, look, I got a stupid question to ask you, but if there’s a three to one ROI, nobody benefits more than the insurance company.

 

Mark Walker (11:53.846)

Right? Because they’re paying premiums. I mean, paying a healthcare cost and taking premiums in, if you can reduce your costs by 40, 50, 60%, you guys make out like bandits. Why wouldn’t you pay for food? So the funny version of the story is, and he’s on our board today, but he started laughing at me. I’m like, look, I don’t know your space. So just correct me if I’m wrong. And he said, no, what’s funny about it is, if you would have told me this a year ago, I would have told you it’s snake oil. Stay away from it. But…

 

Lori Taylor (12:06.12)

So the funny version of the story is, and he’s on board today, but we started laughing at him. I’m like, look, I don’t know your space. And just credit report, he said, no, what’s funny about it is if you would have told him to steer, I would have told you to stay away from him. But literally, I just walked out of a meeting where we’re specifically talking about how do we use food as medicine and health care. Wow. So we started our story, I mean, I was sold with that. So we then went all in, even before the benefit was authorized for medical.

 

Mark Walker (12:19.07)

Literally, I just walked out of a meeting where we’re specifically talking about how do we use food as medicine and health care? So that was the start of it for our story. I was sold at that point. So we then went all in Even before the the benefit was authorized for medicare But now we’re in a position where there’s millions of people nationwide that qualify for this benefit. They just don’t know about it. So Yeah

 

Tony Freytag (12:24.983)

you

 

Lori Taylor (12:36.317)

But now we’re in a position where there’s millions of people nationwide qualified for this benefit, they just don’t know it. So… Wow! Yeah, it’s amazing. It’s a crazy, crazy story and it’s…

 

Tony Freytag (12:45.303)

That’s amazing.

 

Mark Walker (12:46.774)

It’s a crazy, crazy story. And it’s, you know, so I’d like to take credit for Tony, but it’s not, you know, for me, it was just math. It was just, I don’t understand this. Like I’m not partial to any, like the GLP-1 drugs. I’m like, okay, yeah, they work. And they’re twice as expensive as feeding somebody all year round. Like, okay, I mean, it’s just math. So…

 

Lori Taylor (12:50.576)

you know, so I’d like to take credit for it Tony, but it’s not, you know, for me it was just math. It was just, I don’t understand this. Like I’m not partial to any of the GMP1 drugs. I’m like, okay, yeah they work, and they’re twice as expensive as feeding somebody all year round. Like, okay, I mean, it’s just math. So, so anyway, it’s a very fascinating industry and you can imagine I could go on for a year. So, so anyway, it’s a very fascinating industry and you can imagine I could go on for a year. So, so anyway, it’s a very fascinating industry

 

Mark Walker (13:10.43)

So anyway, it’s a very fascinating industry and you can imagine I could go on for hours and hours and hours, all of the little nuance and differences and what works, what doesn’t work, all that stuff.

 

Lori Taylor (13:17.992)

Well, we definitely have some things we want to call out. So, and we’re going to dive into some of what you’ve talked about a little bit deeper and some it’s, you know, we’re probably going to have to have direct people to your website or have you back on in the future to dive into what all this means. But let’s start. So that timeline you said when you were.

 

Lori Taylor (13:40.869)

when you realized, okay, there’s a financial opportunity here for the healthcare industry, or well, the insurance industry, when was that?

 

Lori Taylor (13:52.932)

Was that like five years ago, three years ago? Four, four and a half years ago. Okay. And Performance Kitchen already existed at that time, but was more so focused on things like helping people thrive in the keto lifestyle. Well, now what’s the-

 

Mark Walker (13:54.763)

That was about four, four and a half years ago. Yeah, yeah.

 

Mark Walker (14:08.374)

Well, no, we weren’t specifically keto. What we were were a healthy food brand sold at retail in 10,000 doors nationwide, trying to compete with, you know, the healthy choices of the world, the lean cuisines, the, you know, on shelf. And you can imagine, especially, we’re a frozen meal company. So as you can imagine, it’s a difficult task because they’re all healthy. Nobody really knows the difference until you really dive in. And so this is where our Kroger relationship came in. Kroger has an…

 

Lori Taylor (14:12.784)

sold at retail, and think about the doors nationwide. Yep. Trying to compete with the health and choices of the world. Sure. The vaccines, the on-shelf, and you can imagine, especially we’re a crazy real company, so as you can imagine, it’s a difficult task, because they’re all healthy. Nobody really knows the difference. Right. Until you really dive in. And so this is where our proger relationship came in. Proger has an app called the Opt Up app.

 

Mark Walker (14:38.43)

an app called the Opt Up app. It’s an algorithm that rates the quote unquote healthiness of all the products on the shelf. That’s one of the, actually one of the reasons we invested originally, because we were the highest rated product on the Kroger shelf. And so, but it doesn’t matter if you can’t convey that to the end user. And as a general rule, healthy eating costs, you know, two to three times as much as, you know, non-healthy. And so you’ve got this dynamic at play where

 

Lori Taylor (14:40.632)

It’s an algorithm that rates the healthiness of all the products in the shop. It’s actually one of the reasons you get invested in it, because you are the highest rated product from the shop. Right. But it doesn’t matter if you can’t convey that to the end user. And as a general rule, healthy eating costs two to three times as much as non-healthy. And so you’ve got this dynamic at play where

 

Mark Walker (15:08.302)

Can you voluntarily convince people to eat healthy and pay two to three times as much? I think we figured that out in the country. The vast majority of the country, the answer’s no. Now, even if they wanted to, 40% of the country can’t afford it. So, and then you’ve got 30% of the country that we’re fighting this, what I consider a disease, which is his food or sugar addiction. And it’s just a very, very difficult pitch. And so…

 

Lori Taylor (15:10.506)

you can eat healthy, you can pay two or three times as much. I think we’ve figured that out in the country, the vast majority of the country that answers that. Right. Even if they wanted to, 40% of the country can’t afford it.

 

Lori Taylor (15:22.812)

So, and then you’ve got 30% of the country that we’re fighting this, what I consider disease, which is this food or sugar addiction. And it’s just a very, very difficult pitch. And so this is where the business side of it comes in is, well, how do you convince people to get it? We have an acronym called CAT, C-A-T, which is Convenient Supportability Intersight. Okay. Not, why do we do what we do? Well, it’s inconvenient.

 

Mark Walker (15:35.69)

This is where the business side of it comes in is, well, how do you convince people to do it? We have an acronym called CAT, which is convenience, affordability and taste. And that’s why we do what we do. It has to be convenient. It’s got to be affordable and it’s got to taste good. And so those are our primary concerns. The problem, the key problem with the industry is affordability. There is no way our chief health officer, Dr. Robert Graham, talks about this. But.

 

Lori Taylor (15:51.48)

It’s gotta be affordable and it’s gotta taste good. Yeah. So those who are primary concerns, the key problem with the industry is affordable.

 

Lori Taylor (16:00.936)

There’s no way our Chief Health Officer, Dr. Rock Graham, talks about this, but the first thing he was taught in culinary school was quality of the product starts with quality ingredients. Right. Until you know this, because of the produce industry. Right? You don’t start with high quality ingredients, you’re in product. The problem with high quality ingredients is they cost money. That’s right. And so it’s just about that. Absolutely. So, our key was, well we need some money.

 

Mark Walker (16:05.206)

The first thing he was taught in culinary school was the quality of the product starts with the quality of the ingredients, right? And Tony, you know this because of the produce industry, right? If you don’t start with high quality ingredients, you’re in product. The problem with high quality ingredients is they cost money, right? And so this is balancing it. So our key was, well, we need somebody to subsidize this industry. Either we find a nonprofit to do it.

 

Tony Freytag (16:24.416)

Absolutely.

 

Lori Taylor (16:30.39)

to subsidize this industry. Even if we find a non-profit to subsidize the price, only we find the benefactor of people eating healthy. Who does that? Well, insurance. Insurance is the primary beneficiary of people eating healthy. Right. So if we can get them to subsidize healthy eating, now the industry works, because now you can increase the quality of the product, give it away for free potentially, and have it just as convenient as the 50 other home-delivered meal times.

 

Mark Walker (16:34.382)

to subsidize the price or we find the benefactor of people eating healthy. Who does that? Well, insurance. Insurance is the primary beneficiary of people eating healthy. So if we can get them to subsidize healthy eating, now the industry works because now you can increase the quality of the product, give it away for free potentially and have it just as convenient as the 50 other home delivered meal companies out there. Right?

 

Lori Taylor (17:00.6)

Right, right. Well, and so one of our objectives with this mini series is to identify all these stakeholders. You know, you were there in Chicago, Tony was there, Tony was on stage. The number one thing that I took away was like, wow, this is a whole web, a huge ecosystem. And when I think of your company, Mark, I’m thinking medically tailored meals. I don’t know if that’s the category or if that’s what you consider your industry, but let’s help people understand like,

 

Lori Taylor (17:30.444)

How do you, like what is your stakeholder? Are you medically tailored meals? Is that an industry or is that better defined as like we’re part of the broader food industry? Yeah, so let me tell you how we summarize this. It’s not only what food is medicine means to us, it’s the integration of food and healthcare to fight crime.

 

Mark Walker (17:40.862)

Yeah, so let me tell you how we summarize the space. And I’ve already described what food is medicine needs to us. It’s the integration of food in health care to fight chronic disease. The question is, what breaks down the food is medicine industry? There’s a lot of factors, one of which is services or apps. Coaching apps, coaching platforms, and that’s a multibillion dollar industry today, where people are not able to afford to buy food.

 

Lori Taylor (17:54.152)

The question is, what breaks down who’s medicine? There’s a lot of factors, one of which is services or apps. Like coaching apps, coaching platforms, and that’s a multi-billion dollar industry today, where people are attempting to convert people to behavioral change through apps or social programs.

 

Mark Walker (18:07.626)

are attempting to convert people to behavioral change through apps or social programs, RD services, blah, blah, blah. The second category is what you guys know very well, which is produce and or medically tailored prescriptions for groceries, that sort of thing. There’s a lot of stakeholders obviously in that space, but it’s the similar concept. The only issue is you start with the education.

 

Lori Taylor (18:14.76)

The second category is what you guys know very well, which is produce and or medical table with prescriptions. For groceries, that sort of thing. There’s a lot of stakeholders obviously in that space, but it’s similar concept. The only issue is you start with the education. And the education piece is it only works if you’re successful at educating people how to shop, how to buy, how to get, how to buy food. And the education piece is it only works if you’re successful at educating people how to shop, how to buy, how to get, how to buy food. And the education piece is it only works if you’re successful at educating people how to shop, how to buy, how to buy, how to buy food. And the education piece is it only works if you’re successful at educating people how to shop, how to buy, how to get, how to buy food. And the education piece is it only works if you’re successful

 

Mark Walker (18:38.13)

And the education piece is it only works if you’re successful at educating people how to shop, how to buy, how to get, how to blah, blah, blah. The produce goes a step further and says, okay, we’re not gonna, we will try to educate you, but we’re just gonna give you the produce. We’re gonna give you the food, give it to you for free, make sure it’s high quality so that, you know, you have better food to eat. The challenge with the produce side is, you still need an education to convert those ingredients to an actual meal.

 

Lori Taylor (18:44.714)

the block. The produce goes a step further and says, okay, we’re not gonna, we will try to educate you, but we’re just gonna give you the produce. We’re gonna give you the food, give it to you for free, make sure it’s high quality so that, you know, you have better food to eat. The challenge on the produce side is you still need an education to convert those ingredients to an actual meat. Right. Right? And unfortunately, the way that food works is you have 15 ingredients and the only thing you pick the wrong one, it blows the whole peel off.

 

Mark Walker (19:05.386)

Right? And unfortunately, the way that food works is you have 15 ingredients in the meal, you pick the wrong one, and it blows the whole meal up. Sodium is usually the wrong one people pick. Right? The third version of the industry is where we’re firmly planted, which is medically tailored meals. It takes the education out of it and the cooking out of it and says, just eat that. There’s a meal, just eat it. Right?

 

Lori Taylor (19:17.374)

The third version of the industry is where we’re from, the planet, which is medically tailored meals. It takes the education out of it and the cooking out of it and says, just eat that. There’s a meal, just eat it. And there’s a whole philosophy surrounding on what works, what doesn’t work, why it works, why it doesn’t. I am a big, big believer that medically tailored meals should be a temporary solution.

 

Mark Walker (19:30.114)

And there’s a whole philosophy surrounding on what works, what doesn’t work, why it works, why it doesn’t. I am a big, big believer that medically tailored meals should be a temporary solution. It should be what I call a food intervention. That you come in and you say, just eat that, just eat that. What we have found is that within two to three weeks, if they eat it, people start feeling the change.

 

Lori Taylor (19:50.412)

Yeah. Yeah. What we have found is that within two to three weeks.

 

Lori Taylor (19:56.588)

If they eat it, people start feeling the change. Right, and they start saying, what the heck’s going on? I feel better, I have more energy, I have, and that’s where the education starts. They start self-educating. Now they start, and we obviously help them along the way, giving them information, materials, blah blah blah, this is between avocado oil, olive oil, and vegetables. It’s a difference, this is why heavy processing doesn’t make sense. This is why blah blah blah.

 

Mark Walker (19:59.898)

And they start saying, what the heck’s going on? I feel better. I have more energy. And that’s where the education starts. They start self-educating. Now they start, and we obviously help them along the way of giving them information, materials, blah, blah, blah. This is the difference between avocado oil, olive oil, and vegetable oils. This is why heavy processing doesn’t make sense. This is why blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Hopefully by the end of the intervention, now, we’re following the…

 

Lori Taylor (20:23.088)

Hopefully by the end of the intervention now we’re following the benefits that insurance companies have offered. So some are 30 day benefits. The best ones that we work with are full 12 week, 90 day elections. So it’s a full 90 days of benefits of meals, either two to three meals a day. They will ship to people’s homes and they just eat them.

 

Mark Walker (20:26.806)

the benefits that insurance companies have offered. So some are 30 day benefits. The best ones that we work with are full 12 week, 90 day interventions. So it’s a full 90 days of benefits of meals, either two to three meals a day that we ship to people’s homes and they just eat it. So.

 

Lori Taylor (20:46.604)

And to your points earlier about the financial side of this, everyone’s still winning. The insurance company’s winning, the patient who is the recipient of this food intervention, they’re winning, and obviously your company as a stakeholder is winning. Everybody, the whole system wins from it. Yeah. I’m not gonna use the eye.

 

Tony Freytag (20:49.635)

Bye.

 

Mark Walker (21:07.346)

And everybody, it’s the whole system wins from it. And look, I’m not one of these guys that there’s a whole industry of he’s evil and he’s evil. And I’m not that guy. Like, look, the reality is one of the biggest issues we have today is the ultra-processed environment that we live in. But if you’d know the history of that, that was for a reason. After World War II,

 

Lori Taylor (21:13.768)

There’s a whole industry of he’s evil and he’s evil. I’m not that guy. The reality is, one of the biggest issues we have today is the ultra-processed environment that we live in. But if you look at the history of that, that was for a reason. After World War II, we had major issues with supply chain and the ultra-processing was part of the American innovative system.

 

Mark Walker (21:32.322)

We had major issues with supply chain and the ultra-processing was part of the American innovative system. The challenge is we solved the problem that had unintended consequences, right? And now we’re dealing with those, but that’s everything, right? It wasn’t evil for us to figure out a way to supply, what is it now, eight billion people in the world with food? It’s an incredible human achievement, but it comes with its own consequences.

 

Lori Taylor (21:39.068)

The challenge is we solved the problem that had unintended consequences. And now we’re dealing with those unintended, but that’s evident. It wasn’t evil for us to figure out a way to supply 8 billion people in the world with food. It’s an incredible human achievement. But it comes with its own consequences. And negative, and unfortunately the health of all the people we’re feeding as well.

 

Tony Freytag (21:42.908)

Thank you.

 

Mark Walker (21:59.062)

right, and negative and unfortunately the health of all the people we’re feeding is one of them. So, but you’re 100% right, Lori, is that if you really look at all the stakeholders in this, if done correctly, everybody benefits, right? I mean, when you’re dealing with a 4.1, 4.2 trillion dollar industry today, and that’s just health care, not to mention the food industry, like that’s a whole other thing altogether. There’s so much benefit that you can do as a country, right? And then you don’t have to deal with

 

Lori Taylor (22:04.644)

So, but you’re 100% right, Lori, is that if you really look at all the stakeholders in this, it’s done correctly everybody benefits. Right? You’re dealing with a $4.1, $4.2 trillion dollar interest. And that’s just healthy. Not to mention the food industry. Like that’s a whole lot of this thing all together. There’s so much benefit that you can do as a country. And then you have to deal with, I think you asked me, well, anyway, we’ll go to that.

 

Mark Walker (22:28.678)

I think you asked as well. Anyway, we’ll go to that in a minute.

 

Lori Taylor (22:32.1)

Well, I want to emphasize one thing, and I’m going to give Tony the mic again for some questions he has. So one thing we’re asking all of our guests, because we’re bringing on movers and shakers that represent all these different stakeholders. And you’ve said it, but I really want to emphasize it for our listeners.

 

Lori Taylor (22:51.232)

What, how do you define food as medicine? What I think is really, that’s a question we’re asking everyone. Now, before you answer it, I think it’s really interesting that Performance Kitchen, when you visit the website, it’s part of your trademark brand identity. Not food as medicine, but rather food is medicine. So.

 

Lori Taylor (23:11.172)

Tell us a little bit more about that. My question that I’m supposed to ask you in every guest is how do you define food as medicine? But with you, I guess it’s food is medicine. So tell us a little bit more.

 

Mark Walker (23:21.57)

Well, that’s a simple explanation for us is that, I mean, when I look at it, I just see, golly, we were early in the space. Like how in the world would we get a trademark for food as medicine? There’s pros and cons of that. Obviously being that early, you got to fund it until it pops. So here’s the simple explanation. The way we define it, food is medicine is the movement. Food is medicine is the rallying cry. It’s the belief in the system that food can be a…

 

Lori Taylor (23:27.492)

I just see, we were early in space. Yeah. We were in the framework of food is medicine. Right. There’s pros and cons of that. Obviously, being that early, you got to fund it until it pops. So here’s the simple explanation. The way we define it, food is medicine is the movement. Food is medicine is the rallying cry. It’s the belief in the system that food can be a core part of our health system. So I’m going to go back to the question of the

 

Mark Walker (23:52.527)

a core part of our healthcare system. Food as medicine is the deployment of that movement into healthcare. So food as medicine is the movement, food as medicine is how are we gonna deploy it in healthcare itself to actually solve these problems. That makes sense. So, I’m gonna go ahead and start with a question that I’ve been getting a lot of questions about. And I think that’s a really good question.

 

Lori Taylor (23:56.976)

Food as medicine is the deployment of that movement. So food as medicine is movement, food as medicine is how are we gonna deploy it in healthcare itself to actually solve these problems? I love that. Yeah, definitely. Tony, I’ll pass the mic to you. Who’s leading, obviously you are, but what industry? Because obviously you can make the best food.

 

Tony Freytag (24:12.687)

You know, who’s leading? Obviously you are. But what industry? Because obviously you can make the best food for whatever reason in the whole world. But if it can’t get to the consumer, if it can’t get to me, can’t get to Lori, who’s leading that? Who’s the distribution, getting it at the last foot? Because it’s not the last mile. It’s getting it into the basket.

 

Lori Taylor (24:23.46)

uh for whatever reason in the whole world but if it can’t

 

Tony Freytag (24:43.314)

that is moving this.

 

Mark Walker (24:46.07)

Well, so I would argue it’s fairly complicated because you’re disrupting an entire system, right? So what we’re doing is tacking on to the outside of that system until it’s all integrated. But the short version is we are doing everything from manufacturing to distribution, last mile delivery. And to your point, last mile doesn’t always mean last mile. Sometimes it means with Miss Betty, who can’t get out of her bed, it actually means last couple feet.

 

Tony Freytag (24:53.025)

Absolutely.

 

Mark Walker (25:13.998)

Well, you have to actually bring the box that you ship to our door into our apartment and stock the freezer with it. So the short answer on who is leading is nobody knows because it’s not fully fleshed out yet. There’s a lot of people, we’ve talked to almost every payer in the industry, the vast majority of the payers don’t know what the solution is. They’re trying things. The good news is some of the more ambitious ones have already moved in and have offered benefits in the category.

 

Mark Walker (25:43.958)

But, and we can announce this with you guys, what it’s about to happen with us is we believe that what we’re about to do publicly will be the rallying cry that moves the movement. So what we are announcing shortly is that we are partnering with Kroger Health to deploy this solution to the masses that Kroger already represents.

 

Mark Walker (26:13.206)

without knowing Kroger Health, it’s hard to even understand what that means, but you have, think Kroger Health, you have 24,000 healthcare professionals that if they were a hospital system, they’d be one of the biggest in the country, right? So that’s just on the health side. That’s not the 500,000 employees they have outside of that. But more so than that, I’ve never met a more excited group to move this space forward than the group within Kroger Health. They are ecstatic to be able to…

 

Mark Walker (26:41.302)

be the leader to kind of move the space. And we’re collectively doing it. Not to mention the fact that we have now built a food is medicine locator that basically allows you to go in zip code by zip code throughout the country and find benefits in your area that are currently offered by insurance companies in your area. And it’s a incredible, I mean, we’ve been using it for the past few months. It’s an incredible tool because what ends up

 

Mark Walker (27:09.994)

doing is identifies benefits in your area. But not only that, but it moves the industry because if consumer demand requests this benefit, then payers have to move into the space very, very quickly. So it’s complicated. I don’t want to get into all the details, but there’s so many stakeholders in the space, including US government. I mean, there’s all this stuff going on with Congress evaluating does this work? Does this not work?

 

Lori Taylor (27:10.384)

Yeah. Is identifies benefits in your area. But not only that, but it moves the industry. Because if consumer demand requests this benefit, then payers have to move into space very, very quickly. Yeah. So it’s complicated. I don’t want to get into all the details, but there’s so many.

 

Lori Taylor (27:29.14)

stakeholders in the space, including the U.S. government. I mean, there’s all this stuff going on with Congress evaluating does this work, does this not work? But you can imagine from a fiscally responsible standpoint, when you guys see the graph of what we spend a year on healthcare, it’s a disaster. I mean, it totally is a moving disaster. That if you know the information, you’re like, oh, whether you’re a Democrat or Republican, you gotta figure that out. It’s gonna be a big, big, big

Mark Walker (27:37.89)

But you can imagine from a fiscally responsible standpoint, when you guys see the graph of what we spend a year on healthcare, it’s a disaster. I mean, it truly is a looming disaster. That if you know the information, you’re like, hold on, whether you’re Democrat or Republican, you gotta figure it out because it’s gonna be a massive issue, right?

Tony Freytag (27:58.723)

So I have a follow-up and all this makes, I mean, and I believe me, there’s nothing worse than a convert and I’m a convert to the movement. So you know, bear with me. But what’s the, okay, the insurance companies are the payers. That’s where the money gets paid out. But I can’t help but see that there are certain people that are going to say, wait a minute.

Lori Taylor (27:59.024)

So I have a follow-up. All this makes me believe me. There’s nothing worse than a convert. And I’m a convert to the movement. So bear with me. But what’s the pay? The insurance companies are the payers. That’s where the money gets paid out. But I can’t help but see that there are certain people that are going to say, wait a minute.

Tony Freytag (28:28.927)

You don’t have to eat that food, just take this pill.

Lori Taylor (28:29.232)

You don’t have to eat that food, just take this pill. How? And so the pharmaceutical or the drug or whatever you want to call it, and I’m not against it, I’m just saying the vast amounts of money that is spent lobbying advocates at the congressional, at our national level, there’s going to be a lot of pushback, or maybe there is already pushback.

Mark Walker (28:33.71)

100% right.

Tony Freytag (28:36.075)

And so the pharmaceutical or the drug or whatever you want to call it, and I’m not against it, I’m just saying the vast amounts of money that is spent lobbying advocates at the congressional or at our national level, there’s going to be a lot of pushback or maybe there is already pushback. Is that level?

Mark Walker (29:01.014)

No, you’re 100% correct. I mean, look, there’s stakeholders in every industry. I take the position that I honestly don’t think people are evil. They’re just, the vast majority of them are just capitalists trying to solve a problem. Now they’re trying to solve a problem. That’s exactly right. I don’t mind that at all, but that puts the onus on us of solving the problem better. Right? And so look, I’ll be the first one to say, GLP-1 drugs work. They do.

Tony Freytag (29:16.446)

Yeah, which is nothing wrong with that.

 

Lori Taylor (29:19.409)

like or news

Lori Taylor (29:26.673)

Right. Right. Look, I’ll be the first one to say it. GFB-1 drugs work. They do. And they’re incredible. They’re FDA approved. It’s only $15,000 a year for every diabetic in the country. So it’s not a sudden $8 trillion budget for a health care. Wow. Wow. What they don’t do though, and there’s a lot of issues and there’s a lot of new research coming out that, I saw a study the other day that they’re incredible at getting fat off your body.

Mark Walker (29:30.582)

And they’re incredible. They’re FDA approved. It’s only $13,000 a year for every diabetic in the country. So it’s now all of a sudden an $8 trillion budget for healthcare in the country. What they don’t do though, and there’s a lot of issues and there’s a lot of new research coming out that, I mean, I saw a study the other day that they’re incredible at getting fat off your body. But you know what they do also? They get muscle off your body. And that could be one of the most devastating things you can do in the senior community. Because…

Lori Taylor (29:51.624)

You know what they do also? They get muscle off of you. And that could be one of the most devastating things you can do in the scene that you meet. Because muscle mass is a, or at least lean muscle is such a major component of their health. But that’s the first thing. The second thing is just economics. Is truly and literally, you can feed somebody every meal, year-round, for half the price that you’re spending on a GOP-1.

Mark Walker (29:58.474)

muscle mass is a, or at least lean muscle is such a major component of their health. But that’s the first thing. The second thing is just economics, is truly and literally, you could feed somebody every meal year round for half the price that you’re spending on the GLP-1 drug. What you’re not getting from GLP-1, all they do successfully is they reduce your appetite.

Lori Taylor (30:23.941)

Yeah.

Mark Walker (30:25.194)

And there’s a whole lot of other medical things they do, but that’s what they are effective at doing for weight loss and diabetes. And guess what you still have to do? You still gotta eat. And so it’s not only the cost of the drug that you gotta shoot up with weekly, and not to mention the fact that when you start shooting up, stop shooting up, you go right back. So now it’s legitimately, you have to be on this for the rest of your life. Or it disappears.

Tony Freytag (30:34.422)

Yeah.

Lori Taylor (30:40.608)

And not to mention the fact that when you start cheating up, stop cheating up, you go right back. Right? So now it’s legitimately you have to be on this and the rest of it. Yeah. You’re home. It disappears, right? So the food aspect is not only are we providing a benefit for half the cost, right? And the way we’re doing it, like I said at the beginning, I’m a big fan of a short-term intervention, not a year-round intervention.

Tony Freytag (30:48.523)

Yeah, you’re hooked.

Mark Walker (30:52.298)

So the food aspect is not only are we providing a benefit for half the cost, right? And the way we’re doing it, like I said at the beginning, I’m a big fan of a short-term intervention, not a year-round intervention. But we’re also feeding people at the same time. So you have a massive food insecurity problem in the country too. The GLP-1 does absolutely nothing for it, right? People still have to eat. So even if they’re a diabetic, you gotta feed them now and give them the drug. So it’s really just how do you solve the problem differently.

Lori Taylor (31:04.48)

But we’re also feeding people at the same time. So you have a massive food insecurity problem in the country too. In GLP-1, there’s absolutely nothing. Right. People still have to eat. So even if they’re diabetic, you gotta feed them now and give them the drug. So it’s really just how do you solve the problem there. I mean, it’s fascinating. I mean, who are some of the other stakeholders in food as medicine?

Tony Freytag (31:24.659)

I mean, it’s fascinating. I mean, who are some of the other stakeholders in food as medicine? I mean, I,

Mark Walker (31:31.446)

I mean, it doesn’t. It really, it’s what?

Lori Taylor (31:33.876)

You, Tony, you’re one of them. Crunch pack, yeah. Yeah, I know.

Tony Freytag (31:35.303)

Yeah, that was somewhat rhetorical. And, you know, and I look at our partnership with Taylor Farms. That are farms, the largest producer of bag salads in the country. And I knew that there is a driving force within this organization. Within that, it has been instilled in us since the day we created our company 23 years ago. And I know it is with Bruce Taylor and his company.

Lori Taylor (32:02.944)

And I know it is with Bruce Taylor and his company. And so I think there’s a lot of us out there, but we also feel like there’s a whole lot of obstacles. Education is one of getting the world off. You know who else I think, before Mark answers that, moms are a huge stakeholder. I think that’s a great question.

Tony Freytag (32:05.984)

And so I think there’s a lot of us out there, but we also feel like there’s a whole lot of obstacles. Education is one of them, getting the word out.

Mark Walker (32:14.946)

Well, so that’s.

Tony Freytag (32:20.012)

Yes, yes.

Lori Taylor (32:20.944)

in this whole movement too. I mean, look at not just what patient demand has done for pharmaceuticals, but if we’re talking about food, I mean, Tony, no one knows the data as it relates to grocery purchases better than an owner of a fresh food business. Moms are making those decisions at the grocery store as to what food is moving. So I’m very proud as we continue this series and here today to be that voice, as it represents that massive stakeholder.

Lori Taylor (32:48.744)

who can help drive this movement forward. Moms, parents, not just moms, parents, households. Well, I think the better way to ask the question is who is not a stakeholder. Yeah. I mean, every single one of the moms, it’s the best moms. We’ve got four kids, so my wife has the impossible task of feeding my kids something that’s convenient and quick that happens to be healthy.

Tony Freytag (32:54.347)

Yeah, exactly.

Mark Walker (32:58.154)

Well, and I think the better way to ask the question is, who is not a stakeholder in this space, right? I mean, every single one of the moms, let’s address moms. And we’ve got four kids. So my wife has the impossible task of feeding my kids something that’s convenient and quick, that happens to be healthy, that they will eat without feeling like she’s doing a disservice to them as a parent. I mean, I don’t know what moms that resonates with, but I would imagine all of them, right?

Lori Taylor (33:24.257)

that they will eat without feeling like she’s going to get service again. I mean, I don’t know what moms that resonates with, but I would imagine all of them. All of them. But the other question is, what’s the city going to have to eat? Yeah. Now do it without money. Yeah. It’s an impossible task for us to be able to do. So we have to start driving the infrastructure differently. And so, Tony, to answer your question, I

Mark Walker (33:27.902)

Okay, and now the question is, let’s assume you don’t have needs. Now do it without money. It’s just a, it’s an impossible task we’re asking people to do. So we have to start driving the infrastructure differently. And so Tony, to answer your question, the economics is such a big component of this. This is why I believe that the payer market is crucial to this. And by payer, you realize that the biggest payer is the federal government.

Tony Freytag (33:28.028)

Yep.

Lori Taylor (33:46.736)

The economics is such a big component of this. This is why I believe that the pay to market is crucial to this. And by pay year, you realize that the biggest pay year is a federal government, right? Medicare and Medicaid, that’s 150 million people in Medicare. But the way that privatization has worked through Medicare Advantage.

Mark Walker (33:57.63)

Right? With Medicare and Medicaid, that’s 150 million people in the country. Um, but the way that privatization has worked through Medicare Advantage, um, um, private companies are now a stakeholder in this as well, because they’ve taken the responsibility of the federal government on themselves. And now they’re responsible for being the final say on the right, but even go further down the road. So we’re corporations, corporations. We don’t think about it. They have thousands of employees.

Lori Taylor (34:09.308)

private companies are now a stakeholder in this as well. Because they’ve taken responsibility to the federal government on themselves, and now they’re responsible for being the final say on the tax. Right, but you can go further down the road. So are corporations. Corporations, you don’t think about it, they have thousands of employees. They are paying for, for example, they’re paying for the healthcare of 500,000 employees. Yeah. You can’t imagine the burden that fixes on an organization when healthcare costs are going up. Well, I guess you can’t imagine.

Mark Walker (34:26.902)

that they are paying for programs, a great example. They’re paying for the healthcare of 500,000 employees. You can’t imagine the burden that places on an organization when healthcare costs are going up. Well, I guess you can’t imagine it.

Tony Freytag (34:38.687)

I do. You know, we have between five and seven hundred employees depending on the time of the year. So I sit in on meetings every year about what what our insurance rates are going to do. So.

Lori Taylor (34:39.882)

I do. You know, we have between 500 and 700 employees who are doing it here, so I sit in on meetings every year about what our insurance rates are gonna do. So. And it’s never, hey, good news, they’re going down this year. It’s never happened. I’ve never heard those words, never. Right? And I don’t know if you’ve ever heard them. No, no. So that’s the, so the answer to who the stakeholders are is anybody that eats, anybody produces the food they eat, anybody that provides healthcare, or anybody that has to rely on it.

Mark Walker (34:49.379)

And it’s never, hey, good news, they’re going down this year. It’s never happened. Right?

Tony Freytag (34:52.421)

I’ve never heard those words, never, and I don’t believe I ever will.

Mark Walker (34:57.506)

So that’s the answer to who the stakeholders are is anybody that eats, anybody produces the food they eat, anybody that provides healthcare or anybody that has to rely on healthcare. I don’t know how to limit that group, right? It’s just everyone.

Lori Taylor (35:09.704)

I don’t know how to limit that group. It’s everyone. It’s literally everyone. It’s a fascinating, fascinating space that, like you said, it’s, I think you asked the question of why, why now, if you haven’t asked it before. You know.

Tony Freytag (35:13.471)

Yes, everyone.

Mark Walker (35:15.434)

So yeah, it’s a fascinating, fascinating space that, like you said, it’s, and I think you asked the question of why now, if you haven’t asked it, we’re, you know, I don’t know the answer to that. I mean, I told you my story of five years ago, I looked at the data and I said, this is unbelievable. Why aren’t we driving this across the country? I think the short answer is one of the primary reasons it’s gotten so much prominence recently over the past year is because of COVID.

Lori Taylor (35:27.452)

I don’t really answer that. I mean, I told you my story five years ago. I looked at the data and I said, this is unbelievable. Why aren’t we providing this across the country? I think the short answer is one of the primary reasons it’s gotten so much prominence recently over the past year is because of COVID. We’ve been two years focusing exclusively on we need a vaccine. We need something to protect us from this deadly disease.

Mark Walker (35:45.462)

We spent two years focusing exclusively on, we need a vaccine. We need something to protect us from this deadly disease. Whereas when the data came out, we realized the people susceptible to this disease are primarily older people and people with chronic disease. So we are sitting ducks. And look, let’s be honest, COVID was terrible, but it’s nowhere near what it could have been, right? I mean, some of these chronic, I mean,

Lori Taylor (35:55.352)

Whereas when the data came out, we realized that people susceptible to this disease are primarily older people. And people with chronic disease. So we are sitting ducks. And look, let’s be honest. COVID was terrible, but it’s nowhere near what it could have been. Right. I mean, some of these chronic, I mean, uh, these infectious diseases are just, we’re talking about mortality rates in the 10 to 30 percent.

Mark Walker (36:14.338)

these infectious diseases are just, we’re talking about mortality rates on the 10 to 30%, right? That’s a, and if we’re sitting ducks because of the health of the nation, which we are, when we have 60% of the country with a chronic disease, we’ve got to do something about it. We’ve got to figure it out, right? So I don’t know what the impetus was, but I think that had a lot to do with it. Yeah, so it’s fascinating to see where we’re at today. And

Lori Taylor (36:28.653)

Right.

Tony Freytag (36:41.059)

Fascinating and exciting, I would say.

Lori Taylor (36:41.176)

Well, I agree with both of you. Well, our time is limited, unfortunately. I mean, Mark, we could keep going and going. But before we transition to closing remarks, there’s a few things that I want to make sure we accomplish. So let’s walk people through, like, soup to nuts what the journey looks like. So I’m someone who’s a candidate for medically tailored meals.

Mark Walker (36:43.31)

That’s right.

Lori Taylor (37:06.944)

I’ve heard that Performance Kitchen is the leader in the category. What happens next? Help walk us through that user experience.

Mark Walker (37:17.474)

So it’s a very simple one, oddly enough, and that’s one of our primary objectives is to make the process simple so that people will understand it. Because I was talking to a doctor this morning and I said, I’m not a big believer that the reason we don’t have food as medicine is that we have uneducated doctors. I just, my four-year-old knows that eating healthy is good for you. The problem is doctors just don’t have tools. Now, I don’t think that they have the vast amount of education that would be necessary to be…

Lori Taylor (37:25.297)

Yeah. I was talking to a doctor this morning and I said, I’m not a big believer that the reason we don’t have food and medicine is that we have uneducated doctors. I just, my four year old knows that eating healthy is good for you. I completely agree. Doctors just don’t have tools. Yeah. Now I don’t think that they have the vast amount of education that would be necessary to be completely insistent upon it, but.

Mark Walker (37:46.35)

completely insistent upon it, but very few doctors say, you know what, I don’t think diet has anything to do with their overall health, right? It’s just, it’s just silly. So what we need more than anything else is a tool. We need something, a prescription tool to be able to prescribe food as medicine. So that is what we have launched, is a prescription tool where you can either get your physician to prescribe it or you can actually self prescribe. And we’ve built one, Laurie, for you.

Lori Taylor (37:50.012)

Very few doctors say, you know what, I don’t think diet has anything to do with their overall health. It’s just simple. So what we need more than anything else is a tool. We need something, a prescription tool to be able to prescribe pre-dose medicine. So that is what we have launched. Is a prescription tool where you can either get your physician to prescribe it or you can actually self prescribe it. So, that is what we have launched. Is a prescription tool where you can either

Lori Taylor (38:15.069)

And we built one, Lori, for you at performancekitchen.com slash, um, um, we’ll have to go back to this one because I can’t remember the next two. All right. Okay. So here, we’ll cut this and do it again. Yeah. Ready? Let’s do that again. I’m going to clap and then carry on. That’s a great thought. So, Lori, the good news is, is the tool that we built, we built one for you. Ooh. In the comments at performancekitchen.com slash produce moms.

Mark Walker (38:15.698)

at performancekitchen.com slash. What we’ll have to go back to this one because I can’t remember the name produce moms I think. So here we’ll cut this and do it again. So.

Mark Walker (38:33.59)

So, Lori, the good news is, is the tool that we’ve built, we built one for you, for your audience, at performancekitchen.com slash produce moms. And you can go there and look in your zip code and find the benefit, find if you qualify for it. And this industry is just getting started, so it’s primarily in Medicare and Medicaid. But the real question is, how many of us know somebody with a chronic disease that would qualify on Medicare?

Lori Taylor (38:43.192)

Okay. And you can go there and look in your zip code and find the benefit, find if you qualify for it. Okay. And this industry is just getting started, so it’s primarily a medicator, a medicated. Okay. But the real question is, how many of us know somebody with chronic disease that can qualify for medical? Probably all of us. Everybody. Yeah. Yeah, and so what we are gonna be doing as a company is pushing the movement forward.

Mark Walker (39:01.91)

everybody, right? And so what we are going to be doing as a company is pushing the movement forward. And look, we’re a private company, so obviously we want to make money, but honestly, it’s not really a concern. If we can push the movement, we will be a benefactor of the movement. So it’s for every benefit in the country that we know that’s on Medicare Advantage or Medicaid, and we’re updating it almost every day. So if you go there and you’re looking for, I mean, some of the most robust chronic benefits we have.

Tony Freytag (39:02.059)

Yes, everybody. Yep.

Lori Taylor (39:10.884)

And look, we’re a private company, so obviously we want to make money, but honestly it’s not really a concern. If we can push the movement, we will be a benefactor. So I would benefit in the country.

Lori Taylor (39:25.409)

So if you go there and you’re looking for some of the most robust chronic benefits we have, one does three meals a day every day for 12 weeks. 252 free meals. If you happen to have a chronic disease and are on that plan.

Mark Walker (39:32.93)

One does three meals a day every day for 12 weeks, 252 free meals if you happen to be, have a chronic disease and are on that plan, right? Another one’s two meals a day every day for 90 days. So every benefit is different depending on which plan you’re on, but it’s a remarkable tool for people to identify benefits in the area. And here’s the key to this. Because of the first do no harm that I spoke about at the beginning of this doesn’t really exist in food. The vast majority of payers

Lori Taylor (39:42.304)

Another one is two meals a day for 90 days. So every benefit is different depending on which plan you’re on. But it’s a remarkable tool for people to identify benefits in the area. And here’s the key to this.

Lori Taylor (39:55.952)

Because of the first do no harm that I spoke about at the beginning of this, it doesn’t really exist in food. The vast majority of payers, it doesn’t have to be prescribed. Right. It just has to be asked for. Right. So if you’re on a plan, you just call customer service and say, I’d like, now what we’ve done with our tool is we will actually submit your request to your payer on your behalf for the day. Wow. We put in very small pieces of that information, the first date, last name, birthday, zip code, and we can actually, we gotta put some medical,

Mark Walker (40:01.93)

It doesn’t have to be prescribed. It just has to be asked for. So if you’re on a plan, you just call customer service and say, I’d like it. Now, what we’ve done with our tool is we will actually submit your request to your payer on your behalf for the benefit. So you put in very small pieces of information, your first name, last name, birthday, zip code, and we can actually, you got to put some, I mean, some healthcare information in there. But once we have that, if you qualify for the benefit, we will…

Lori Taylor (40:25.906)

information in there. Once we have that, if you qualify for a benefit, we will bottle it up, send it to your healthcare insurer and say, Lori Taylor is asking for a benefit, and now it’s in their hands to approve it or disprove it. Right. But that’s what we’re doing, and there’s, I don’t know, a dozen different awareness campaigns in that front, but it is…

Mark Walker (40:30.594)

bottle it up, send it to your healthcare insurer and say, Lori Taylor is asking for her benefit. And now it’s in their hands to approve it or disapprove it. But that’s what we’re doing. And there’s, I don’t know, a dozen different awareness campaigns in that front, but it is, because I’ve been in this for five years and trying to solve the problem, it’s an unbelievable tool to do exactly what you’re talking about. It’s how do we tell people that this exists and moves? Right? And that’s where we’re at.

Lori Taylor (40:50.052)

Because I’ve been in this for five years and try to solve the problem, it’s an unbelievable tool to do exactly what you’ve got. How do we tell people that this exists? Right.

Tony Freytag (41:00.247)

Well, amazing.

Lori Taylor (41:02.264)

Yeah, I love that. And definitely tighten it, like just eliminating a lot of the barriers, as you’re describing that interface where it’s as simple as just putting in basic facts that we all know by heart, or can get very quickly from our private records. And then it’s just turnkey from there. That is what makes it a winning, that’s what makes this a winner in the ecosystem.

Mark Walker (41:29.462)

Well, and what’s fascinating too is that, and I’ve thought about this as we’re building it, there’s not a lot in healthcare that works that way, right? If you want any other service in healthcare, you either have to go in and see your doctor and get charged 150 bucks and then prescribe you whatever thing you’ve self-diagnosed with, right? And they may or may not prescribe it. But this one is actually going directly to consumers and saying, look, if you happen to be a diabetic, happen to have heart disease, I mean, there’s actually one payer that pays for pre-diabetes. So it’s a…

Lori Taylor (41:34.472)

There’s not a lot of healthcare that works there. Right? Nothing. Yeah. You either have to go in and see your doctor and they charge $150 and then prescribe you whatever you think you’ve self-diagnosed with. Yeah. And they may or may not prescribe it. But this one is actually going directly to consumers and saying, look, if you happen to be a diabetic, have an heart disease, there’s actually one way of a case for free diabetes.

Lori Taylor (41:58.76)

So it’s a very robust industry that almost nobody knows about right now. And giving people the authority and freedom over their own health to say…

Mark Walker (41:59.35)

very robust industry that almost nobody knows about right now. And giving people the authority and the freedom over their own health to say, I would like this benefit. And just putting their information in itself, prescribing the benefit. So it’s an exciting phase. Yeah.

Lori Taylor (42:08.508)

I would like this. Yep. Well, it’s amazing. And I think, I think it’s also important to call out like these meals also taste good, you know, it’s not the, these are chef inspired meals. They’re culturally appropriate. So Mark, anything you want to talk about? Like we, at the end of the day, we all eat cause it tastes good, you know? So let’s talk on that before we give the mic back to Tony for our closing remarks.

Tony Freytag (42:13.204)

Exciting.

Mark Walker (42:29.422)

That’s right.

Mark Walker (42:35.426)

So that’s such a crucial, crucial part of this business. And let me tell you a little thought exercise we do internally. We’ve got some of the best doctors in the world. Mark Hyman is part of our company. Dr. Robert Graham, who’s a chef and a physician. Dr. Jennifer Singh, who’s ACL. We’ve got some great, great doctors surrounding us.

Lori Taylor (42:52.637)

I mean, these are world renowned physicians. Yeah.

Mark Walker (42:54.658)

That’s right. And we’ve given a thought exercise to them. And we said, okay, whatever dietary style you prefer as a doctor, let’s assume you’re given carte blanche authority by some governing body to strap people to a chair for 90 days and just force feed them your meal. What percentage get healthier? And first of all, they’re, you know, they’re dying. They believe in it. They’re like, you can’t do that. Let’s just thought exercise if you could. It’s a hundred percent with no side effects. It’s a hundred percent over.

Lori Taylor (43:02.268)

Let’s assume you’re given car watch authority by some government body to strap people to chair for 90 days, and just force freedom. What percentage do you have? And first of all, they’re, you know, they believe in it. They’re like, let’s just thought exercise. It’s 100% right. It’s 100% of something. Okay, perfect. Now that we’re here, you can’t do that.

Mark Walker (43:24.382)

And so I’m like, okay, perfect. Now that we’re here, you can’t do that. So what’s the key to the industry? You gotta convince them to voluntarily take their medicine every day. And the way that works is, Lori, you’re exactly right. It’s gotta taste good. If it doesn’t taste good, they’re gonna make it a week or two week and they’re off. So we spend so much time on the medical side of it. The efficacy of the product is the most efficacy or efficacy drug that exists.

Lori Taylor (43:31.048)

You’ve got to convince them to voluntarily take their medicine every day. And the way that works is, well, you’re exactly right. It’s got to taste good. Yeah. It’s got to taste good. They’re going to make a wee for two weeks and they’re off. So we spent so much time on the medical side, but the efficacy of the product is the most important.

Lori Taylor (43:53.377)

the key is not the efficacy of the drug, it’s the adoption of it, it’s the retention, it’s the adherence. And that’s where the taste comes in. So we are hyper hyper focused on making a high quality product that people want to eat. And by the way, just a little disclaimer, pick your favorite fruit in the world, whatever it is, just in your mouth. Now we eat three times a day, every single day for nine months.

Mark Walker (43:53.75)

So the key is not the efficacy of the drug, it’s the adoption of it, it’s the retention, it’s the adherence, and that’s where the taste comes in. So we are hyper, hyper focused on making a high quality product that people want to eat. And by the way, just a little disclaimer, pick your favorite fruit in the world, whatever it is, just in your mind. Now eat it three times a day, every single day for 90 days. This is a very, very difficult thing to do, right? It doesn’t matter what it is.

Lori Taylor (44:17.756)

This is a very, very difficult thing to do. Right. It doesn’t matter what it is. So a lot of it is few talent, it’s variety, it’s high quality, it’s culturally appropriate, maybe people where they are, it’s all these things. So that’s such a core component of the performance kitchen strategy is we’ve got the science down, now we have to make sure that people want to continue. So that’s a core piece of our model. Love it.

Mark Walker (44:22.41)

So a lot of it is skew count, it’s variety, it’s high quality, it’s culturally appropriate, meeting people where they are, it’s all those things. So that’s such a core component of the performance kitchen strategy is we’ve got the science down, now we have to make sure that people want to continually eat this. So that’s a core piece of our model.

Tony Freytag (44:46.519)

So exciting, so exciting. You know, there’s so much here and it sounds so simple. Yeah, you know, why aren’t we doing it? And you’ll notice in the background behind me is a shovel. And the shovel says, when you’re digging too deep and getting yourself in trouble, stop digging. And I think that’s where we are. We’re…

Lori Taylor (44:46.808)

So exciting, so exciting. You know, there’s so much here and it sounds so simple. Yeah, you know, why aren’t we doing it? And you’ll notice in the background behind me is a shovel. And the shovel says, when you’re digging too deep and getting yourself in trouble, stop digging. And I think that’s where we are.

Tony Freytag (45:16.467)

We need to stop digging our own graves deeper because we can accomplish this. I mean, what you’re doing is just inspiring as hell. I can’t believe that, you know, you’re here talking with us and all the exciting things. And I’m amazed and excited and inspired. And so hats off and what can we do next?

Lori Taylor (45:16.76)

We need to stop digging our own graves deeper, because we can accomplish this. I mean, what you’re doing is just inspiring as hell. I can’t believe that, you know, you’re here talking with us in all these exciting things. I’m amazed and excited and inspired.

Lori Taylor (45:40.537)

And so hats off and what can we do next? What’s next on the agenda? Honestly, part of what we’re doing right now.

Tony Freytag (45:45.227)

What’s next on the agenda?

Mark Walker (45:47.018)

Well, honestly, part of what we’re doing right now is just the awareness that food as medicine is here. It’s not okay. Everybody rally around. We got to push Congress and maybe sometimes five to ten years from now, we’ll get a bill that it’s here today. I mean, literally with the produce moms website that we’ve created, you can go there today and say, oh, it looks like I qualify for 252 meals. And Lori, I didn’t answer this question soup to nuts. This is what happens when it’s approved by health insurance. We get an order.

Lori Taylor (45:49.32)

just the awareness that food is medicine is heat. It’s not, okay, everybody rally around, we gotta push Congress, and maybe sometimes five to 10 years from now we’ll get a bill, but it’s here today. I mean, literally, with the Produce Moms website that we created, you can go there today and say, oh, it looks like I qualified for 252 meals. And glory, I didn’t answer this question. Soup to nuts, this is what happens. It’s approved by health insurance. We get an order, we ship 14 meals a week to your house.

Mark Walker (46:16.002)

We ship 14 meals a week to your house. So they land up on your doorstep once a week for 12 weeks. And there’s a whole process on top of that, but that’s what it looks like. It’s now the only thing we ask people is this is a massive opportunity to change your health. Take advantage of it. And don’t commit to 12 weeks. We don’t need 12 weeks. We need two weeks. Give us two weeks. Commit to us for two weeks. Eat it every day.

Lori Taylor (46:19.394)

So they land up on your doorstep once a week for 12 weeks. Right. And there’s a whole process on top of that, but that’s what it looks like. Right. Right? It’s now the only thing we ask people is this is a massive opportunity to change your health. Take advantage of it.

Lori Taylor (46:37.453)

Right?

Mark Walker (46:45.162)

At the end of two weeks, we’ll have a conversation. If it hasn’t worked, we’ll go to the insurance company and say they want the food back, right? If it does, stick with us another two weeks. And what almost every study, every time we’ve done this, will tell you is at the end of 12 weeks, your life will be completely different, right? So it’s very, very exciting where we’re at and it’s just a matter of awareness now. So just awareness. So exactly what we’re doing now, Lori, is just making people aware that it exists.

Lori Taylor (47:01.776)

So it’s very, very exciting where we’re at. It’s just a matter of awareness now. So just awareness, exactly what we’re doing now in Florida is just making people aware that it exists. So everyone who’s listening and tuning in, performancekitchen.com slash produce moms, that can be your, you know, that you can experience it too on this micro site that Mark and his team put together.

Lori Taylor (47:25.892)

You can obviously stay tuned for this series. We’re gonna have some other voices and other stakeholders, other perspectives. But Mark, gosh, I just wanna echo Tony’s sentiments. Thank you so much for what you’re doing. Thank you for being an early colleague and mentor of mine in this space. I just think what you’re doing is amazing. And I know, I know that best days are ahead for Poor Feminine’s Kitchen. So.

Lori Taylor (47:50.22)

Tony, I’ll let you sign us off from the show and Mark, of course, you get an opportunity for final remarks first. So Mark, anything else that you’d like to say before we close things out?

Mark Walker (48:01.238)

Tony, you going first or me? Okay. So yeah, just set, you know, obviously this is a big fight. Okay.

Lori Taylor (48:03.288)

Mark and then Tony will close it out. All right, I’ll clap. Here we go. All right. Hang on, sorry. Mark, one second. All right, I’m gonna clap. You have your remarks after the clap, okay?

Mark Walker (48:16.246)

Yeah, so first of all, thank you guys for having me on. Oddly enough, we’ve been kind of in hibernation, not hibernation, we’ve been working our tails off, but behind the scenes working on this and now it’s kind of our coming out party and telling everybody where we’re at and what exists and the payers that have already moved in the space. So it’s very, very exciting. And now we just need to rally around the country. And so like Lori said, go to produce moms, that performance keeps the site. We’ll put the link on the deal. And

Lori Taylor (48:16.58)

Yeah, so first of all, thank you guys for having me on.

Lori Taylor (48:25.032)

not high-commissioned, we’ve been working our tails off. But behind the scenes, working on this, and now it’s kind of our coming out party and telling everybody where we’re at and what exists and the haters that have already moved in space. It’s very, very exciting.

Mark Walker (48:46.23)

You don’t have to have a chronic disease, but if you know somebody that does, send them that. We’re filling out on their behalf and see what’s available to them. At very least be educated on what’s available and then we’ll go from there. But we really do believe that this will change the healthcare of the nation. And we need to support the insurance companies that have implemented the benefit because they really are taking a massive move to pay for these benefits for people. So, appreciate you having me on, Lloyd.

Lori Taylor (49:09.094)

to take these guys. So, appreciate you having me on the way. Thank you. Well, I cannot think of a better way. Lori, when you proposed this, when we started batting this around earlier, I don’t know, in either in April or earlier this month, when you threw this out, we really didn’t know where it was gonna go.

Tony Freytag (49:13.343)

Well, I cannot think of a better way. Lori, when you proposed this, when we started batting this around earlier, I don’t know, either in April or earlier this month, and you threw this out, we really didn’t know where it was gonna go. But I can think of no better way to have kicked this off than with you, Mark. And it’s exciting, it’s exhilarating, and yes, I’m a convert, so those around me are just gonna have to put up with me.

Lori Taylor (49:26.864)

But I can think of no better way to kick this off than with you, Mark. And it’s exciting, it’s exhilarating, and yes, I’m a convert, so those around me are just going to put up with me.

Lori Taylor (49:40.644)

And I’ll have Lori and you mark the blade. So again, thank you. And Lori, thank you so much for putting this together. Yes. All right. Tune in next time, folks. Don’t forget, rate, review, subscribe, all that stuff. Tell your friends. This Food is Medicine movement is here, and it’s going to change not only your life, but it’s going to change the world. Thank you to our guests today.

Tony Freytag (49:41.851)

And you know, and I’ll have Lori and you, Mark, to blame. So I can’t thank you enough. And Lori, thank you so much for putting this together.

Lori Taylor (50:04.332)

Mark Walker with Performance Kitchen, and our illustrious co-host, Tony Freytag with CrunchPak, who sponsored this mini series. Thank you all for being here. Thank you.

Tony Freytag (50:13.859)

Thank you.

Mark Walker (50:13.922)

Thanks guys, bye bye.